paying mamasan for lady to finish work bah

[Pompal 09.]

Yet another long-a** bigsquat post...

I've been in Pattaya for the last 3 months, so I'm not a total newb. I met a lady who says (and I believe) she's only been here for a month, working in a short time bar on Soi 6. She's definitely a solid 8.5, really goodlooking 21 year old. As appears to always be the case, I'll never know when I'm getting bullsh*tted, but I'm pretty sure she's working for a rougher than average mamasan. Supposedly she works 14 hours a day (bar opens 11am-1am, cleans bar at 8am then does makeup/shower), 7 days a week. Every 2 months they get 2 days off. Gets 3000/mo, pays 500 for room, clears 2500 plus whatever she makes short time, which she claims is like 1 customer every couple days. Mamasan made me pay 1000 bar fine for LT. Pooying's been here a month and *supposedly* has never seen the place, never done long time before. So I paid 2 days (ugh, not very expat of me, 2000 bar for 2 days???) to show her what the long time/pseudo gf experience is about. She had tears in her eyes when we were watching a romantic sunset from a view point. She really strikes me as a not very bright, not yet jaded and farang-wise, gorgeous village girl.

So I don't think i could ever settle down permanently with a girl (see the butterfly expat thread), but I wanted to show her what her options are. Some guy would definitely fall for her and sponsor her if she was in the right situation, she's way above average. I took her out to some regular beer bars to talk with other lady friends of mine so they could explain how their situation works. I also took her to an agogo, she's definitely gogo material, and IMO 9000/mo, 500 bf and 1000 ST, 1500/2000 LT beats Soi 6 hands down as far as her clearing the most bahts in a month.

She was repulsed by the gogo, she said issan girls are supposed to be demure and shy( btw she speaks zero english, this is all in thai and with the aid of my dictionary), and she was offended by the nekkid ladies. What's ironic is i took her to the beach and bought her a thong bikini and she had no problem running around in that, so I was like, what's the difference? But anyhow, I understand not every girl is cut out for an agogo...

So, long story, uh, long- I get the impression she came straight from the farm to one of the roughest situations in the whole p4p scene, and is somewhat trapped. She said she just wants to go back to issan, but can't cuz of, of course, bahts. So I just want her to get into a safer situation with the possibilities of finding a sponsor. She claims that to leave her bar she has to pay the mamasan 8000, of which she gets 2000. So she says she'll give me back the 2000 right away and work off the rest. But I say, wtf, just pack your bags and leave, come stay with me til we get you setup. What's gonna happen if you don't pay? I can't seem to get an answer to this question. What if she wasn't leaving to stay with a farang, would she have to pay 8000 to just go back to issan? She says yes...

So, bullsh*t, right? Anyone ever hear of this? This is way closer to that "sex slave" situation portrayed in the media that I always thought was BS.


BS

 

[I heart you]

Heard it before in agogo's only.. And even then very very rarely..

Buying your way out ensures you have a repeat job to come back too.. Tho by the sound of her job I dont think she needs it back..

I have never heard of enforcement to keep a girl in the bar, only the stigma of leaving and 'screwing over' the bar.. The lack of a chance of going back to work there, burnt bridges and stuff..

She should wait until payday, pack and leave...

 

[old cat lady]

my ex-gf had a similar set-up at Sabai Room

if she wanted to leave work for awhile, she had to pay about 6-8k for that privalege
it was basically a way of keeping the girls from coming and going as they please
so if they left without paying than they couldnt get back to work again
i dont think she would be in danger if she left without paying

you do have to be very cautious though
this girl is fragile and every nice thing you do for her she will take that to heart and become real attached to you

i also did the sane thing with a bg that worked in karon. she had to stay in her bar all day and be back by 12pm next day
i suggested she go o Patong where she would ahve more freedom
she did go but then expected me to be with her all the time

 

[stacie]

very good point. i admit, this is definitely part of her appeal. the saying is "lady stay long time pattaya, rhak falang my dy". if i were to throw in the towel and get a girlfriend (i never thought i'd get tired of a new hottie in the bed every night, but it's happening...), i'd want a girl who doesn't speak too much english (too experienced and jaded, not cuz i like not being able to communicate).

most of the girls seem to tell the story of the guy they fell in love with when they first got here, who ended up being a butterfly like the rest of em, and from then on they've only "liked" falang but never loved. gosh, i feel guilty just typing this... i know i couldn't settle permanently, so i'd be that guy for her sooner or later... better to just mind my own business.

 

[Brettski]

but she genuinely sounds like she needs some guidance
i think its great you want to advise her about getting out of that hell hole
i think you can help out, and then get another thai girl or you can try and being very direct that you are not bf
heck, getting her out of soi6 and giving her a little more freedom and possibly breaking her heart a little is better than her predictament now

 

[Told You So]

Well said Paulie..

You cant save em all.. But it sure sounds like you could effect this ones life to the positive...

Being locked into a Soi 6 massive workload etc is only happening becuase she is nieve.. Even if it hurts her to wake her up and open her eyes, it is in her favor to do so..

 

[Hf unknown]

good advice fellas, i appreciate having people who understand to bounce ideas off- to be clear, i was on soi 6 as a customer, i'm no angel... she just struck me as being extremely naive and not understanding the other options. some girls are there by choice, for whatever reasons, inasmuch as any girl in the p4p scene is there by choice...

i went to her bar this afternoon (our 2 days were up) to just say hello and drink a water, no action... i got her alone with her friend who speaks better english to translate, and the mamasan immediately plopped down next to us until i left. the mamasan definitely strikes me as jai daam mak mak. i did manage to tell her i wasn't giving any more money to the mamasan, screw 8000 baht.

anyhow, it may come off as unsympathetic, but i'm *trying* not to rush into anything. if she's been there a month, a few more days isn't gonna kill her. she said she's gonna come over tonight when she finishes work, which is step 1, just showing her that she can work outside of the parameters of her mamasan, go to the discos or something.

as it stands now though, she's got 1 friend from the village there, so as you know, she'd rather have that security in hell than be alone somewhere else, so basically it's gotta be a package deal, i gotta get them both to change bars together. she has said she'll move in with me without her friend, but i don't really want that, i just want her in a better situation.

stay tuned...

 

[Emmyjak13]

again
reminds me of the exact situation i was in in Karon
so i have experience here-although Karon is much better than Soi 6(and ive been a customer there also, im not condemning it, just wouldnt be a good place to work)
also, even if she falls for you, once she gets a little more freedom, the broken heart will be alot less
i would also advise if she does change bars-not to be too frequent of a visitor to her bar cuz she will just wait for you most nighst and not take opportunities that come up
your doing a good thing

 

[Pompal 09.]

might be worth trying to find out a bit more about her background, her current setup doesn't sound too differant to what happens in an upcountry thai brothel so it may not be too unsual for her - if that's the background.

 

[Pompal 09.]

i think so to.
good on you

 

[Karen L]

Sounds like you have met one of the 'new comers on the scene' BS - and fair play to you for wanting to offer some guidance.

From what my lady has told me, although she had the benefit of two older sisters (blood sisters that is) to guide her when she first ventured out of Issan into the more lucrative tourist areas - she too was enticed into certain establishments where they were encouraged to do this do that etc. etc. and offered the benefit of accomodation, help with debts etc. etc. but at the cost of entering into an unwritten agreement whereby they owed the bar/business, they were being offered work by.

Her sisters stopped her from getting into this side of things as they had more knowledge and experience of how things could/should be, whereas she was new to the area/scene and concept of what was expected or what she herself should expect.

From the sounds of it, this young girl you have met appears to have found herself in pattaya with very little guidance of what to do from there on in..(though she probably had some incling as to what she was heading there for, but not necessarily her choice) and possibly accepted the first offer of help or guidance - in the form of a job - from the first person/establishment she came across, which she may have believed were offering her help or support - albeit to their own benefit - as she had no other idea of how things work. Not her fault, and good on you to try to steer her in a direction which is of greater benefit for her.

Please don't get me wrong here, but by the sound of you posts, you may have already fallen for this young lady a little more than you realise - I could be totally wrong - and apologies if I am - but if I were in your position, and accepting how the face thing works over there - if she says she owes x amount of baht before she could leave, it is ovbviously something of a concern for her and maybe she feels indebted to them for their initial sponsorship! - I would pay it for her - get her out of there and steer her into a better position/other options - where she at least has a little more control over what she has/can do.

 

[Left-T]

absolutely- this is part of why my first couple posts waver between "let me get this girl into a better situation" and "never mind, i'll mind my own business"- i *could* easily fall for this girl and I don't really want to.

also, before this turns into "the monger with a heart" self-congratulatory thread, my original post was more questioning whether this was yet another weird complicated bargirl trick to get the maximum bahts out of the farang- which is yet to be determined... i really wish we could introduce the story of the boy who cried wolf into thai elementary schools, i always assume the girls are lying, and i bet sometimes they're not.

but, (on to the self congratulatory part) i may have had a quicker impact than even i was expecting. i went out with her and 3 other friends from the bar after closing time tonight, and she informed me that the 4 of them decided to look for a room outside of the bar, can i help them find a room tommorrow. she said that it's dirty to sleep in the same room they boom boom in all day, and also i guess this let's them get out of waking up at 8 to clean the bar, and they just have to show up at 11. so tommorrow before the bar opens we'll go find them a decent room.

so about 30 minutes after hearing this news, everyone's having a good time, karaoke and eating, i say- so are you going to stay in the same bar? her friend says- why would we change? and being the foot in the mouth guy i am, i said cuz your mamasan is a *****.... rather than cuz it's a short time bar with no prospects for a sponsor, or you won't have to work 14 hour shifts, or any of the other more subtle and appealing reasons to change bars... it got all quiet, and the friend says "i don't care", and the mood changed. obviously it was wrong to openly insult the mamasan in front of 3 girls i didn't know at all. so i made my exit about 10 minutes later.

anyhow- at least she won't be sleeping there, and will get to meet girls who work in other bars in the apartment we find. i don't want to push this too hard, like i said, there are reasons that some girls choose to work short time bars, and of the 4, only my friend would be a superstar at another beer bar.

regarding paying the exit fine, that may happen at some point, but being an ?american? - being who i am, i have a hard time giving the money to the mamasan, for the simple fact that i really do think she's a ***** and it would hurt my pride to give her more than what i've already given her.

 

[Pompal 09.]

poor girl...
Ive heard of these so-called retirement barfines too. Its just another way for some bar-owners to get as much money as poss...

Thats like me giving up my job and giving 2 months wages to the boss...

I suppose it stops the girls from quitting to go travelling up country with their LT customers with free barfine only to try and go back to the bar 2 weeks later or whatever but its still wrong....

 

[Ywuhapive]

I have heard( and experienced) this sort of story before .....but only in Pattaya!!!!
On my last tipr, I met a girl in a bar on 2nd road and we got on really well even though she spoke very little English and had only "worked bar" for 3 months (confirmed by other sources).

Any way the mamasan at the bar was also a right b*tch, but we came to an agreement about BF as I wanted to take this girl to Phuket. The girl had a "sister" who was sponsered but did occasional FL, and another who was sort of 2IC mamasan at the bar. I would have thought that these girls would have at least told her about the pitfalls of bar work, but it doesn't seem to work that way!!! More on this later!!

Anyway, we duly fly off to Phuket, where I show her around and introduce her to some local Thais, I know there. One of them is an exBG ( who she got on well with) and told her all about working in Phuket (costs of rooms, pay rates etc.) and even organised a job in a bar in Soi Tiger, if she wanted!! No decision while we are there!!!

Next, I had to do a visa run so we go to her village (which is near the border) and to see her family. Well, most of the money I had paid her to this point goes to the mother with some set aside to finish her "room" in what appears to be a family housing complex. So that is about 3/4 of the money taken care of.

After a couple of days, it's back to Patts, only for me to be greeted at the bar with a 3600Baht BF bill!! This started a huge shouting match between me and No1 mamasan, only for me to find out that the girl had made an agreement, on the phone, while we were away, that she would pay it!!
OK, thats sorted, with apologies all round!!

Now comes crunch time as all this has really shown everyone how much of a b* tch the mamasan really is!!
My girl decides to go work at another bar but has to pay her way out of the last one. Who does she have to pay???
Her "sister" the 2IC mamasan!!!!!!
To the amount of 10 000 baht!!! My girl's salary is paid out (2 months worth!!!) with the 3600 baht BF deducted!!

At the end of it all, after spending 6 weeks with me, during which time I paid her over 40 000 baht, she ended up with 2500 baht in her pocket!!! No wonder some of these girls never get out of the bar scene!!!!

I find out later (international phone call) that she moved to the other bar( but guess what ???) her 2IC "sister" went with her!!!!!!!

Some times I think that the whole situation is hopeless,if they don't want to help themselves!!!!

 

[EatATaco]

All these bar stories make me realize how lucky my gf was
She worked at a bar that was owned by a former bg that worked with her aunts
I didn't care for some her tactics with customers, but the lady who owned the bar did take care of her girls
She even sent my gf 60k one time when my gf needed. The very next day my gf asked

 

[Remkade]

Sometimes the girls are recruited directly from the villiage and sometimes by close friends/relatives and sometimes with indentured conditions....it amounts to enormous loss of face for them to return home without honouring their agreements....

 

[Robert Abuse]

Well said, Dean!! Remember, Thais are not individuals, they do not function well independently, but must always be part of a group. Therefore, honoring unwritten agreements affects not only their self-esteem, but how they are perceived by others in the group from which they leave, and also by the new group into which they are entering. They are never alone. They would never want to be alone. The idea of independence is way too scary for them. This can be hard for us to understand.

 

[Tyler W]

This is spot on IMHO (just the sentences here though without the context) and I can appreciate you making the post. You may even be able to make it stick to ALL of Asia IMHO.... I honestly do not understand it myself, but sure enough... it applies....

 

[dog]

Figured I'd add a little update... I helped her and her 4 friends find a couple rooms in town. As far as i can tell, the main motivation was that if they sleep in the bar they gotta wake up at 8am to clean it, but if they sleep in their own room they get to sleep in and show up at 11am.

I do think I was getting hustled a bit, but mai bpen rai... I don't think she's too interested in leaving the bar, she kept saying she wanted to, but as far as i could tell, my options were pretty much pay the bar the 8k and then take care of her for the rest of her life, or she was gonna hang out smoking banana all day... You're also spot on about the group thing JayBee- this is a pretty tight knit click of cuties... guess they lean extra hard on each other due to their situation, they don't even get to taste independence with the long time 1 girl/1 farang relationship too often.

I did spend more hanging around time in this bar than any other short time bar before, and i'd sit out front drinking water with my friend, who of course swore she hadn't had a customer in days, but i saw some pretty hi-volume action. I saw one cutie walking out her last customer, waiting 5 minutes, then going with her 6th customer of the day at 3pm, so figure a minimum of 500 per plus say 50 per barfine, and she was definitely over 3k by 3pm. And she wasn't even as cute as my friend...

So stoopid farang yet again, trying to be the knight in shining armour (thought i was over that complex). Pretty sure she prefers the money she makes in this situation over a measly 1k per night long time in a beer bar, and more importantly, yeah, this is her crew of girls, who cares about the mamasan.