Newbie In Canada - Basic Questions, Avoid Scams and Disappointments

[EricKongKong]

Hello gents.
I am familiar with AMPs in Asia (Thailand, HK) and MPs in Latin America (Central America, etc.) but I have never visited one here.
In the former mentioned locations the "massage" is really non-existent and these are brothels though one set in HK specialize in soapy massages but the end point is FS.

In and around where I currently live are three quite nondescript and largely or totally unadvertised MPs, within a few blocks on Dundas St. from High Park to after Jane. Other than the open sign and that they are MP (or health/holistic - they are quite nebulous about the exact work) there's nothing fancy. A friend went to the one near High Park Ave and though they were all Russians or Eastern Europeans. And old and ugly but that was maybe 10 years ago. It's still open doing something so his negative thoughts did not shut it down.

Anyway the questions:

How do you judge if the place is a mistake upon entering? I have been in some seriously grungy MPs including ones in HK where I actually brought sheets and towels from the hotel. But otherwise good cheap service. So appearance is not the only thing. But there must be some warning signs that it's well, nothing for me today, see you later. Then vamoose.

Do I see all the available attendants usually? Or do they follow the style in some HK parlors where the least popular girls (most need the client) are sent to you first?

For services - the front gets only the "admission" payment correct? Any modifications like HJ, BJ, full nude are all done in private? Or are there rates up front whether the girl is nude or not? I don't want the endless up-sells in the room. Topless some extra $, nude, more $, etc.

What are sensible rates for the services beyond admission? HJ BJ FS etc.? I can walk if they are crazy but that is a possible loss of face issue if my impressions are wrong and theirs are normal.

Are rates "stacked"? E.g. if I am willing to pay for FS, do the HJ, BJ for some time before FS come with the higher payment?

Is a massage, say that's all you disappointingly went for, fully nude for both? Is it assumed the MPA is nude? Are hands on a surcharge or figured out at the time of booking a girl and a room?

I'd be happy with a non-bowser of decent age and figure to do a bit of a rub ("massage") and HJ to BBBJ for a sensible amount and some tips to prevent being taken would be great thanks.

I will review the MPs after I give it a try, though I may have to resort to addresses if they don't have names.

 

[adamthrowaway0]

1. The look of places vs. quality unfortunately vary greatly here - the nicer looking ones are often more legitimate and will provide less 'extra service'. The way to tell is to look at reviews on places like this website or others before going. It's not common practice to walk in off of the street to random places and if you do that it will probably be a poor experience

2. Usually there aren't many girls on a shift and so you won't get a line-up like in HK.

3. Yes management will get the admission payment only, usually $40/30minutes. The "tips" go to the girl based on service and are different for everyone.

4. Other people here probably have a better prospective on rates - but generally about $20 HJ, $40 BJ, $80-100 FS

5. In my experience, they're not stacked. You can do $100 FS and she will be happy to include HJ or BJ as well

6. You would have to specifically request the MPA to be nude, and she may ask for money. Touching her is generally extra $ as well, or included if you're doing HJ/BJ/FS. You can request before the massage and figure out a price, or you can request during and see how it goes.

 

[cupcrazy]

before the massage session, you should ask the price range. Some may be reluctant to discuss for the fear that you are an undercover.

 

[EricKongKong]

To Adam, makes sense to go for BJ or FS then to get the works, vs pay for nude and get no action. I’m just leery of them jacking (pun) the costs for everything like a sushi restaurant or dim sum place. And who wants a non nude BJ unless it’s a quickie in a car?

To cupcrazy, after paying the door but before things get underway and with the massage lady you mean.

To both of you, I had replies from someone that don’t appear here but appear in this thread under messages, so there can be public and private replies here?

 

[LanceRomance]

1. The look of places vs. quality unfortunately vary greatly here - the nicer looking ones are often more legitimate and will provide less 'extra service'. The way to tell is to look at reviews on places like this website or others before going. It's not common practice to walk in off of the street to random places and if you do that it will probably be a poor experience

2. Usually there aren't many girls on a shift and so you won't get a line-up like in HK.

3. Yes management will get the admission payment only, usually $40/30minutes. The "tips" go to the girl based on service and are different for everyone.

4. Other people here probably have a better prospective on rates - but generally about $20 HJ, $40 BJ, $80-100 FS

5. In my experience, they're not stacked. You can do $100 FS and she will be happy to include HJ or BJ as well

6. You would have to specifically request the MPA to be nude, and she may ask for money. Touching her is generally extra $ as well, or included if you're doing HJ/BJ/FS. You can request before the massage and figure out a price, or you can request during and see how it goes.

@adamthrowaway has given some very fair advice. I would add the following with respect to point 3 on rates:
The industry standard for extras most "holistic" non-bodyrub licenced MPs is 40/60/80 = Topless/Nude Reverse/Body slide, in terms of "within MPA limits". HJ always included, although that I guess does merit the basic 20 dollar tip. Can't verify, never done less than 60/80 services. The next level up then is 100/120 as baseline for CBJ/CFS which are of course "outside of MPA limits", and may be more expensive. These latter extras may not be available in all spas or even among all MPAs in spas where they are known to occur. As always YMMV. And of course these rates are all above and beyond the door fee.
Note that the set of standard rates could be negotiable in some places, and could even be lower in some holistics, notably in old Chinatown downtown.
Story is completely different with the upscale joints such as Premier, Flirt, Seduction, etc. The experience is significantly different and some have an all-in rate for "within MPA limits" service including bodyslide. BBBJ/CFS with MPAs who provide are usually 50/100. There are other threads discussing these places at length.

It's worth adding regarding points 1 and 2, if you are more discerning about the MPA's appearance or are accustomed to seeing a lineup, then the upscale bodyrubs are likely a better option ... although when busy you may only get to meet one or two of the girls if they are not engaged. Currently Covid restrictions have limited this somewhat, and some spas basically require advance booking. The holistic places often have as few as two girls per shift. I have even found only one attendant at times. Usually very downscale joints.

Regarding point 6, if you want to touch intimately in any way, then best to opt for a $60 nude reverse at minimum. Again some girls will be more liberal and others may be more restrictive when it comes to this. YMMV
Hope this helps and welcome to our city.

 

[Potato]

I would also encourage you to look into the escort scene if you are interested in FS. A lot of doubts/questions you have would be simply not applicable for incall escorts. Pretty much everything is included and you don't have to negotiate (unless you're into some really strange stuff). The prices would be cheaper too, massage attendants usually cost 200-250 including extras, but escorts are typically 160 for half hour.

 

[EricKongKong]

Regarding point 6, if you want to touch intimately in any way, then best to opt for a $60 nude reverse at minimum. Again some girls will be more liberal and others may be more restrictive when it comes to this. YMMV
Hope this helps and welcome to our city.

I don't want to deceive members by implying I am new to Toronto. I've lived here since 1993. I am new to any Canada MP or escort, etc., activity due to being unable to travel since January.

 

[EricKongKong]

@adamthrowaway has given some very fair advice. I would add the following with respect to point 3 on rates:
The industry standard for extras most "holistic" non-bodyrub licenced MPs is 40/60/80 = Topless/Nude Reverse/Body slide, in terms of "within MPA limits". HJ always included, although that I guess does merit the basic 20 dollar tip. Can't verify, never done less than 60/80 services. The next level up then is 100/120 as baseline for CBJ/CFS which are of course "outside of MPA limits", and may be more expensive. These latter extras may not be available in all spas or even among all MPAs in spas where they are known to occur.

To be clear, the 40-60-80 is negotiated in room and not at the desk, so the house gets only the door fee and all this is in private right?
The 100-120 would include nude/reverse/body slide if BJ FS is paid for or am I going to be haggling like for floor mats and undercoating at a car dealer?
I guess if they come across too mercenary I can opt for nothing but the HJ and a $20 tip leaving the MP girl aware that she was gouging or trying to.

 

[cupcrazy]

To be clear, the 40-60-80 is negotiated in room and not at the desk, so the house gets only the door fee and all this is in private right?
The 100-120 would include nude/reverse/body slide if BJ FS is paid for or am I going to be haggling like for floor mats and undercoating at a car dealer?
I guess if they come across too mercenary I can opt for nothing but the HJ and a $20 tip leaving the MP girl aware that she was gouging or trying to.

it depends. some spas give the mpa $10 out of the $40 room fee. With the increase in operating costs, fewer and fewer spas give the $10 to the mpa. If you are concern getting burn, try the minimal first. If you like how the session goes, you can upgrade the service anytime during the sesssion. If you are rich, come back for second round.

 

[LanceRomance]

To be clear, the 40-60-80 is negotiated in room and not at the desk, so the house gets only the door fee and all this is in private right?
The 100-120 would include nude/reverse/body slide if BJ FS is paid for or am I going to be haggling like for floor mats and undercoating at a car dealer?
I guess if they come across too mercenary I can opt for nothing but the HJ and a $20 tip leaving the MP girl aware that she was gouging or trying to.

In any spa, extras are strictly between you and the girl and never discussed at the desk (if there is one). In a holistic spa you should expect to pay the door fee first. Be advised, that transaction could be directly to the girl right at the beginning when he asks you how long you want to stay, but she remits that to the house. Not all spas actually have a full time door attendant and the MPAs on shift all share in filling that role.

In terms of the 40-60-80 and 100-120 extras, consider it a cumulative rate for increasing level of intimacy. Higher you pay, more liberal the service, and higher rate includes all of prior services. Now in a 30 minute session you may find that when ask for one of the "outside of MPA limits" services such as a BJ, the BS element may be less emphasized, as the MPA will likely get down to the business at hand. And be advised not all MPAs are particularly good at BS, but they may be really good at BJ/FS. But you should not have to be negotiating literally every service. Also the 100-120 rates are only minimum guidelines. There are girls who will charge you more for BJ/FS, whereas the 40-60-80 services are pretty much standard across all holistics.

When the subject of extras comes up (most girls will have a way of asking if you have not somehow stated up front) then you will find out just what she is or isn't comfortable with. For example, once when all I requested was BS, girl clearly wanted to go for BJ/FS, and she stated that she was not super comfortable with BS. To be fair, tables in that place did not really lend themselves to that, and the place is well known as a suk&fuk shop. Many other times MPAs do not go higher than BS, either shop policy or her own limits. Some LFK/DFK, some don't. For example, one of the last times I went to an AMP, picked a really young girl who was clearly new and very reluctant to remove any of her clothing. Swear the girl was wearing three pairs of panties, LOL. On the other hand, some girls just strip naked immediately once you say NR/BS.

As anyone here will tell you, YMMV.

 

[whalerider]

yeah and don't expect same level of service or choice as sukhumvit soapy massage places.

 

[EricKongKong]

In any spa, extras are strictly between you and the girl and never discussed at the desk (if there is one). In a holistic spa you should expect to pay the door fee first. Be advised, that transaction could be directly to the girl right at the beginning when he asks you how long you want to stay, but she remits that to the house. Not all spas actually have a full time door attendant and the MPAs on shift all share in filling that role.

In terms of the 40-60-80 and 100-120 extras, consider it a cumulative rate for increasing level of intimacy. Higher you pay, more liberal the service, and higher rate includes all of prior services. Now in a 30 minute session you may find that when ask for one of the "outside of MPA limits" services such as a BJ, the BS element may be less emphasized, as the MPA will likely get down to the business at hand. And be advised not all MPAs are particularly good at BS, but they may be really good at BJ/FS. But you should not have to be negotiating literally every service. Also the 100-120 rates are only minimum guidelines. There are girls who will charge you more for BJ/FS, whereas the 40-60-80 services are pretty much standard across all holistics.

When the subject of extras comes up (most girls will have a way of asking if you have not somehow stated up front) then you will find out just what she is or isn't comfortable with. For example, once when all I requested was BS, girl clearly wanted to go for BJ/FS, and she stated that she was not super comfortable with BS. To be fair, tables in that place did not really lend themselves to that, and the place is well known as a suk&fuk shop. Many other times MPAs do not go higher than BS, either shop policy or her own limits. Some LFK/DFK, some don't. For example, one of the last times I went to an AMP, picked a really young girl who was clearly new and very reluctant to remove any of her clothing. Swear the girl was wearing three pairs of panties, LOL. On the other hand, some girls just strip naked immediately once you say NR/BS.

As anyone here will tell you, YMMV.

I did a bit of research waiting for Amazon to deliver and found of 3 near me there were 4. One is now Vietnamese food, so it's out. Two are holistic owned by Russians (Russian sounding names) and have been for quite a while with a pattern of licenses expiring and then renewed but the same owner names.

One just reopened and is one of the 25 licensed body rub parlors in Toronto. (That one is A&R at Dundas near Jane). Their website is screwed up but there is a little activity on other site including prices, saying VIP is a maximum of $160. I am guessing VIP is FS.

I found the City of Toronto business licensing site and you can search on type (holistic vs. body rub) or address and see how they are licensed and who the owners are and for how long.

I think the Russian holistic are going to have Russians and maybe not so young.

If you had to pick a holistic or a body rub for a first time, which makes more sense?

 

[LanceRomance]

I did a bit of research waiting for Amazon to deliver and found of 3 near me there were 4. One is now Vietnamese food, so it's out. Two are holistic owned by Russians (Russian sounding names) and have been for quite a while with a pattern of licenses expiring and then renewed but the same owner names.

One just reopened and is one of the 25 licensed body rub parlors in Toronto. (That one is A&R at Dundas near Jane). Their website is screwed up but there is a little activity on other site including prices, saying VIP is a maximum of $160. I am guessing VIP is FS.

I found the City of Toronto business licensing site and you can search on type (holistic vs. body rub) or address and see how they are licensed and who the owners are and for how long.

I think the Russian holistic are going to have Russians and maybe not so young.

If you had to pick a holistic or a body rub for a first time, which makes more sense?

TBH, my recommendation for a 1st time visit would be to one of the the Premier chain. More upscale, cleaner, and consistently better looking women who know how to be sensual. They offer fairly diverse selection to match our varied preferences. Just do a little research in the threads here and the Premier website. Experience will be more akin to those you have had overseas. It's like going to a high end brothel in Sao Paulo. Downside is need to book well in advance, much higher all-in cost and the extra prescreening rules they now have. I have never found the experiences there to be regretful, but I am spoiled, since I have been regular there for around 3 years. I have only started venturing into holistics again very recently, and consider myself lucky to have encountered a couple of MPAs who I would repeat with.

In the past I have generally found most holistics to be a real roll of the dice; you never know whether it is worth that 1st visit or not. Russian spas tend to have older women who may have been hot in their time, but now .... And many of the Asian spas are also staffed with with older women. Nothing against older women, especially if you find one with whom you click. My real reluctance with Asian spas is that the women, older or younger, are often far to slender for my tastes. Super shame, since I see plenty of Asian civilians who I would love to spend 45 minutes with .... but they never seem to work in holistic spas.

A holistic spa to consider as 1st time is one of Crystal B's spots. Go for a session with her specifically; I cannot vouch for any of the others, have not tried. She stays within MPA limits, but her "routine" makes it one of the better experiences to be had at this level. And she is a sweetheart, so be good to her.

 

[xtc27]

I did a bit of research waiting for Amazon to deliver and found of 3 near me there were 4. One is now Vietnamese food, so it's out. Two are holistic owned by Russians (Russian sounding names) and have been for quite a while with a pattern of licenses expiring and then renewed but the same owner names.

One just reopened and is one of the 25 licensed body rub parlors in Toronto. (That one is A&R at Dundas near Jane). Their website is screwed up but there is a little activity on other site including prices, saying VIP is a maximum of $160. I am guessing VIP is FS.

I found the City of Toronto business licensing site and you can search on type (holistic vs. body rub) or address and see how they are licensed and who the owners are and for how long.

I think the Russian holistic are going to have Russians and maybe not so young.

If you had to pick a holistic or a body rub for a first time, which makes more sense?

... know this neighbourhood pretty well.... A&R = door locked, lights out, no answer on ph... pretty much closed... mebbe backdoor, noticed doorbell light on... but dunno who answers... if anyone...

...A&R had price war b4 COVID, had 30min VIP @ $80... vip= nude HJ... pretty gd!.... wanna c what happens when they reopen...

1. 4R Health - 4 yr health, dont go there.... me= rather brave, but cannot nerve myselg 2go in...dark & spooky.
2. European Spa: Russian place... Anna Kournikova not inside...

...go further west, a few gr8 Asian places....

eSpa: 12 Jutland... f/ outside, looks sketchy... all car body shops & factory outlets...on website, cute Asian girls... inside... cute Asian girls! 4 once, truth in advertising! Lily, works Tue & Thu, amazing service incl DFK, hot body & GND cute, 30ish, a bit tall, 5’7... Miki, Sun & Mon, about 5’2, D cup & curvy, really bubbly & cute, Susan, 5’1, looks mid 20s & smoking petite Asian spinner body... A cup mouthfuls... FS shop...

Delinto... use as keyword, lots detailled reviews... u like bbbjcim, allota options here.

WJT... Another FS place... back entrance more discreet...usually 4 girls EVERY day pre COVID, now it varies... saw Joice there, gr8 body, mid 30s milf, ok face but u wouldnt pick her 4 that... really obedient service, like any position u want, jumps 2 it... Jenny, 5’8 Korean, A cup spinner, really pretty face.

...West End... few semi-legits (msg w HJ. Only) excep Asian places:

• Oriental Wellness... i think... go Thu - Sat, younger cute girls... other days, not so much... Kipling Bloor (but Bloor here very quiet, not like further East)
• Lexi... I think they’re semi...
• Health 7- 2095 Weston N of Lawrence upstairs tiny plaza unit 211 .. Sun- Wed... mostly msg girls w extras... Thursday day girl Lilli, mebbe fun, no reviews... then FS time:
  • Friday: Coco, full menu altho can give msg, very cute, giant butterfly tat on tummy.... very strong energetic CBJ.... 5’2, b cups, cuddly luvable personality, milfy body
  • Crystal, early 30s Korean, 5’4, c cup, not toned but nice body, FS menu... cant do CBJ like Coco, hj finish 4 me, but allowed me 2 touch her pussy & digits... she was instantly wet... horny girl... hidden gem

... pricing in west end... fs= 100 most places... they can ask more, but biz slow, 100 should do...for Lily or Suan @ eSpa, go 120... they are 2 hot, dont haggle!..... BJ, usually cbj= 80, then 60 Nude HJ, 40 HJ w touching/ topless... 20 would be HJ only but thats weird... BS also 80... Russian 60, its just kinda HJ, BUT REMEBER petite girls cant do it... Italian also 60, again girl needs juicy ass, or yr hotdog wont have enuf bun...

...the rest= FS spas, mainly Queensway & Lakeshore.

 

[EricKongKong]

I passed the lot of them on my bike the other day and went by A&R today on bus, on the way back from a body shop. It appears open. They have a FB page saying the website is down but they opened on the 24th. 4R (formerly 5R so an "R" left") is open and I agree, it looks like a haunted house. Still maybe something inside. Still, unlikely to be murdering clients and selling their kidneys.

Maybe I should post when I go and if there is no report here in 48 hours call the cops to find my corpse.

I found an ad on LeoList for European Spa and get the notion that the person in the photo is literally the only person there. 40 YO Russian with a huge rack.

The owners on the licensing site for 4R ("one "R" cheaper now!") and European are Russian sounding names and the same names for over a decade even when 5R became 4R.

I am without a car for 4 days so Jutland and even 3800 Bloor are unlikely but I can walk to the other 3.

It's only money so the risk is a few hundred over three spas to do research.

 

[xtc27]

I passed the lot of them on my bike the other day and went by A&R today on bus, on the way back from a body shop. It appears open. They have a FB page saying the website is down but they opened on the 24th. 4R (formerly 5R so an "R" left") is open and I agree, it looks like a haunted house. Still maybe something inside. Still, unlikely to be murdering clients and selling their kidneys.

Maybe I should post when I go and if there is no report here in 48 hours call the cops to find my corpse.

I found an ad on LeoList for European Spa and get the notion that the person in the photo is literally the only person there. 40 YO Russian with a huge rack.

The owners on the licensing site for 4R ("one "R" cheaper now!") and European are Russian sounding names and the same names for over a decade even when 5R became 4R.

I am without a car for 4 days so Jutland and even 3800 Bloor are unlikely but I can walk to the other 3.

It's only money so the risk is a few hundred over three spas to do research.

...u wanna go 4R, TOFFT? Trouble is, big risk (ie no kidneys) & lil reward (likely granny w open mind)... cannot imagine hot girl in there... excep mebbe tied up... hmmm...

Yeah, if u TOFFT, bring yr phone & DM me if u taken prisoner ... I’ll bike down w crowbar... mebbe @Caliguy & @UsefulIdiot can form a posse w me 2 the rescue...

.... by bus, Delinto isn’t far.... plus u got a bike, so other places pretty e-z 2get 2...

Lemme know about A&R... for a fact, front door LOCKED on Thursday , open light not on... light on upstairs, could b timer... only hope I saw = back door... but...

MPA car! U no? They always have nice cars... no junk inside... late model... none !

...so if they got some housewife inside... pass... @Ursus wife giving out freebies, not paying 4 that...

 

[xtc27]

Health Spa for reference...

 

[EricKongKong]

I am only without wheels for 4 days due to grossly overestimating how tight I can turn leaving my garage. Oh well.

The thing is 4R and 5R before it have been there for from what I can recall, 5+ maybe 10 years. They must be doing something, vs. owning or paying rent for 10 years with no business. I suspect as with Sunshine (now Vietnam restaurant) where my buddy went in a decade ago and said the reception was the only massage lady, she was in her 40's and he just went for half and hour and a HJ to be kind. I bet 4R (We lost an R for you!) is not much more nor European Spa in the little plaza.

This is on A&R Twitter a few days ago:
ᴀ&ʀ ᴍᴀssᴀɢᴇ sᴛᴜᴅɪᴏ
@aandrstudiospa

A & R Massage Studio on Google
Proudly announcing our Grand-Reopening on September 28,2020 please call 416-760-8555 We apologized for any inconvenience our website is currently under maintenance!

So I guess today is the day. I passed at around 10 am on the bus and it was illuminated. I guess part of the mission.

 

[EricKongKong]

Health Spa for reference...
View attachment 124945

Yep that's it, minus one R from a few years ago when it was 5R

 

[xtc27]

I am only without wheels for 4 days due to grossly overestimating how tight I can turn leaving my garage. Oh well.

The thing is 4R and 5R before it have been there for from what I can recall, 5+ maybe 10 years. They must be doing something, vs. owning or paying rent for 10 years with no business. I suspect as with Sunshine (now Vietnam restaurant) where my buddy went in a decade ago and said the reception was the only massage lady, she was in her 40's and he just went for half and hour and a HJ to be kind. I bet 4R (We lost an R for you!) is not much more nor European Spa in the little plaza.

This is on A&R Twitter a few days ago:
ᴀ&ʀ ᴍᴀssᴀɢᴇ sᴛᴜᴅɪᴏ
@aandrstudiospa
A & R Massage Studio on Google
Proudly announcing our Grand-Reopening on September 28,2020 please call 416-760-8555 We apologized for any inconvenience our website is currently under maintenance!
So I guess today is the day. I passed at around 10 am on the bus and it was illuminated. I guess part of the mission.

Cool! Sounds like open... surprised they can't find nerd 2 fix their website in return 4 sex... (ahem)...

...1 gd fuck = 1 day nerd labour = do the math, nerd labour usually way more $$$....

P!ssed off re webste tho.... Twitter j $40/30min, like Asian spa... where all their clients went, mebbe makes sense...

...But dead website had sweetheart VIP rate... $80/30min, incl nude HJ... $100 (40rm + 60 tip) @ most Asian spas... & girls A&R generally a bit hotter....

===============

My concern w 4R = mebbe not msg...

...u ever see Shangri-La @ Richmond Hill! Fuck, gr8 looking spa... it lures u in... this one repels...

... msg= not bad... inside, everyone getting happy! ...

... wonder if drugs, gambling , other criminal stuff going on... why have place that repels walkins? Cos u don't want 'em.

Or, mebbe

• it is just packed w illegals who fuck 4 cheap
• Nymphomaniac Therapy school.
• female mahong addicts fucking 2 pay off their debt
• a really hot Aspergers girl's club who just want that physical connection
• Aliens evaluating how well they can mimic human female form & behaviour
• Russian scientists stealing Cdn sperm for cloning experiments