Another thread on what to charge....

[cmeduck]

My dh is an LMT, and I am in the internship phase of massage school now.

After three years (for him- two solely working on horses and one+ working with both horses and people), we are STILL trying to decide on a solid pricing setup.

The problem is the same that so many have- not wanting to charge "too much", while still charging "enough". He was charging $70 for a "barn call", per horse, no trip fee, before. That was cool- those who couldn't afford it, simply didn't call him.

Working on people, though, has proven more challenging (from the pricing/business standpoint at least). It doesn't help that he has worked under less-than-ideal circumstances, not having an office of his own until recently (as in, we got one a month ago). One place he "worked out of", he COULD set his own prices IF he booked his own appointments. If the front desk booked the appointment, the client was charged according to their price schedule. As this was at a local massage school, they didn't charge much, and so dh's cut of that was even less. It did keep us going though.

Now that we have our own place, though, we MUST make some hard-fast rules (at least on paper). We have a marketing expert helping us get some materials ready, and she thinks he MUST have different levels of service, rather than charging one rate for what he essentially does for everyone- that is, whatever he and the client deem necessary for that particular session, whether it involves using his hot stones (he uses them therapeutically in most of his massages), or any of the advanced modalities he knows.

There's a fellow nearby (different city, but close to where we are) who does work very similar to what dh does, and he has been in business of over 5 years, and he charges (I think) $55 an hour. He says that he has been successful and is booked as much as he wants to be BECAUSE he charges this amount. I don't know if he has ever raised his rates or if this is what he started out at.

Dh has worked several times on a local MTI, who claims that even at $85 he is under-pricing himself. She thinks he should charge more for what he does. She says that he should charge one rate- $85, not $55. That's a big difference, LOL!

So on one hand, we have the "marketer" saying that we should have "tiered pricing", complete with different levels of service (even if all we do is put that down on paper, and dh ends up charging folks all the same anyway).

On the other hand, we have the other, male (unfortunately, this does matter), successful close-by MT who is encouraging dh to charge less because "as a man in this business, price is a big draw".

On the OTHER hand (hey, we're a twosome, so we have 4 hands available), we have the experienced MTI who says that he isn't charging enough right now. (I believe dh is charging folks $65/hour right now).

Here's the fourth hand (see? toldja we had 4 hands!): what about when I join him in practice? I'll be "fresh outta school", and I KNOW I can't do "what he does". He has his own brand of "magic", and while he has and will teach me a lot, we both know that I am going to end up developing my own style and techniques, and his tried-n-true clients are not going to want to leave him, even for me, even for less $$.

So, here's the dilemma: Dh is not comfortable even saying he does Swedish (he never does a "plain old Swedish" massage- ever. He always has to throw in something else!). He is not comfortable charging different prices when he always gives every massage his "all". He is also not comfortable charging $85- or more!

But if dh does decide to just charge a flat rate, and it is a lower rate (he can't go down as low as $55, but as I said, $65 seems to keep "sticking out"), what do we charge for MY massages when I join him? The "going rate" for the other MT's in the building we have the office in is $65, and they take "undercutting" VERY seriously (eh, that is a nice way of putting it).

Do we charge the same for both his experience and my "fresh style" (LOL)? Would that be fair to his client, or to mine? Would that be fair to HIM, or to ME?

I told him we should probably make out a "tiered pricing chart" to stick up on the wall and include in our marketing materials, and just do what we want as far as combining/discounting rates in the privacy of the room. He says, half-joking, that once I have my license, I'll be way busier than he, and he'll have only his "therapeutic" clients to deal with anymore (because of being female). I say baloney!

If this was your decision, what would you do?

I won't even go into the conversations we've had over whether to offer packages, gift certificates, and other discounts! LOL!

 

[C.I.O]

Keep it simple!! $65 is working for him. I'd go with $65 for either of you. You will both have clients who want to see "just you" for their own reasons. Charge what you are going to charge and don't worry about those other opinions. It's your business.

 

[Now Now]

I am all for one service tailored to the client with one price.

But what are your long term goals? It doesn't sound like he is interested in doing separate "tiered" services so why should he? People love a therapeutic MT who delivers personalized sessions! Is he not successful right now?

If you two end up working out of the same office, you can still offer tiered services while he offers whatever he offers, each of you having a separate practice under the same roof and business name, you just specialize in different stuff. You want to offer just hot stone massage, then offer it, but he doesn't get those bookings because it's not his specialty.

Where I am right now, we have different stuff on the menu, but not all the therapists do all the services. Some don't do Lymph Massage some don't do pregnancy, so they are not booked for those services. It could be that easy with the two of you.

Out of school you could offer your own tiered pricing but I would price the "therapeutic session" the same as him. If you don't feel worthy of that amount run a two month special then go to regular price for yourself. It doesn't take long to develop confidence and your own style. Particularly if you go after your own clients and not try to switch out (unless the clients want to real bad). I always get nervous working on say someone else's DT client. I know that I work differently than others and sometimes my mind gets caught up thinking "I wonder if they think I suck compared to so and so."

How exciting to be able to work with your dh in this way. I've always thought that would be tops!! Good luck!

 

[Jane D]

Keep it simple!! $65 is working for him. I'd go with $65 for either of you. You will both have clients who want to see "just you" for their own reasons. Charge what you are going to charge and don't worry about those other opinions. It's your business.

You know, that is some pretty sound advice, Sharon. Thanks!

 

[Rodina]

My first thought is to charge one price for a "Signature Massage." This price could definitely be $65, or even $70. (You will probably be wanting to raise your price in a year or so anyway, becuase most new people start out too low. Just start out at a good price now.)

As for marketing you could have "Signature Massage by Jane, $70" and "Signature Massage by John, $70" Each one of you write up your own philosophy on massage and a description of how you give your one hour signature massage -- both go on the menu. Some people will choose you, some will choose your husband. After a while, people who have been going to one might want to try the other. Maybe because of scheduling they'll have to. The fact is, you both will have your strengths and weaknesses. Even if you do get more massages at the beginning (I'm not saying you will, but it is possible) after awhile people will wind up trying him, either just because he's the other therapist or because their schedule leaves them with that choice.

Basically, don't make your pricing too complicated. Charge the same for your basic massage. It doesn't matter if you do different stuff. At a spa where 6 different therapists work, they all give a different massage, yet they are priced the same and the time is the same. You can have other treatments that he does, or you do, or both of you do.

I guess I am giving the same advice as Rose of Sharon and the others, only a bit more convoluted!

 

[kELLz !]

I am all for one service tailored to the client with one price.

But what are your long term goals? It doesn't sound like he is interested in doing separate "tiered" services so why should he? People love a therapeutic MT who delivers personalized sessions! Is he not successful right now?

Long term goals.... well, the short term goal is to pay the next bill that comes our way, LOL! Long term, we are still working on. We have a rather large family- our oldest is also in massage school, but he doesn't think that he wants to work with us (at least not at the time being). Some of our longer-term plans will depend on whether he changes his mind or not.

And you are right- he is not interested in offering "tiers". He is a simple fella- one rate, no math involved is his cup-a-tea! I have even realized that if we're going to offer a discount of any sort, it's got to be a round number off, rather than a perceneforum.xxxe off, because he just isn't going to want to "do the math" (and yes, he does have a calculator in the room. He does not like having to switch from "massage mode" to "business mode", especially if he has another client coming in. I help keep the paperwork done!).

As far as being "successful", that depends on how you define the word. He is EXCELLENT at what he does- his particular "brand" of massage. his regulars are extremely loyal to him! What he (and I as well) is NOT "successful" at is marketing- i.e., the getting of NEW extremely loyal (or even semi-regular) clients. This is why we have teamed up with this marketing lady (it is a barter arrangement- she is one of his "extremely loyal" clients, and this is a win-win arrangement, as she has some chronic issues he is helping her with). She insists that "once they have had his hands on them, they can't help but come back". It's a matter of getting them in the first time!

If you two end up working out of the same office, you can still offer tiered services while he offers whatever he offers, each of you having a separate practice under the same roof and business name, you just specialize in different stuff. You want to offer just hot stone massage, then offer it, but he doesn't get those bookings because it's not his specialty.

We actually are planning on forming either a dual-member LLC or a corporation (S-corporation?) as soon as I get my license. Not doing it now because, well, we can't afford it, LOL! We want the business to be "us", not "him or her". I am not sure yet exactly what I will want to offer. (At first I thought you meant that we would operate under different business names, hence the first sentence in this paragraph.) I know that I am not much the "froo-froo" type myself. I have friends who have fibromyalgia, I have had great interest in lymphatic drainage, I have a soft spot for my elderly grandmother and would love to learn how to work on her and others... there are so many directions I could go off into! I am also *really into* herbs, and plan to complete my herbology studies soon and hope to become a certified herbalist within the next year. Would LOVE to find a way to incorporate that as well.

Where I am right now, we have different stuff on the menu, but not all the therapists do all the services. Some don't do Lymph Massage some don't do pregnancy, so they are not booked for those services. It could be that easy with the two of you.

I see what you're saying- and you're right. It's like how they did it when he worked at the school- they filled out a form stating what they wanted to do, and what NOT to book them for.

Out of school you could offer your own tiered pricing but I would price the "therapeutic session" the same as him. If you don't feel worthy of that amount run a two month special then go to regular price for yourself. It doesn't take long to develop confidence and your own style. Particularly if you go after your own clients and not try to switch out (unless the clients want to real bad). I always get nervous working on say someone else's DT client. I know that I work differently than others and sometimes my mind gets caught up thinking "I wonder if they think I suck compared to so and so."

Thanks for the encouragement. Even in my third day into my internship, I was finding myself doing things for my clients that dh does for me and others (and that he insists that I do for him- one reason why he sent me to massage school in the first place was so I could work on him, LOL!). They seemed to love it- yet I know that I am no comparison to him and his touch, and I found myself wondering "Am I even doing this right?" I guess if they like it and it produces the desired results, it is "done right", right?

And I don't think I'd feel comfortable asking different prices from him, especially if I was asking MORE than he for something (even if he doesn't do it). Call it goofy, or whatever. More like "We charge $xx, whom would you like to book with?" Or rather, "What time would you like your appointment?", and they get either him OR me depending. I think we're going to have to have "opposite schedules", if I do go to work "full time". We were originally planning for me to get my license and just be available to pinch-hit for him and be able to go help him on things like corporate gigs and the like, where he'd need more than just his two hands. I didn't set out wanting to actually build my own clientele, really! It is kinda looking like that may happen anyway though.

How exciting to be able to work with your dh in this way. I've always thought that would be tops!! Good luck!

Thank you. yes, this is a wonderful opportunity for us. We have sought loooooooooooooong and hard for the "ideal family business". We kinda fell into massage almost by accident, really. God has His ways, LOL! Even though we probably won't be "working side by side", we will be working TOGETHER, able to discuss cases and refer to each other and help each other out, and it is SO nice to be able to "think alike" when it comes to work now. We have tried many different small businesses (sole proprietorships- very small home-based businesses- just him!), and even though he was working "from home" and I was indeed helping him with things like the bookwork, we still weren't "in it together" like we can be and already are with massage. We are very excited about this next seforum.xxxe.

Tomorrow we will be mailing out a letter to all of his "cold" clients- folks he saw once or twice, at the school, farmer's market from last summer, horse clients, or other folks he hasn't seen in a while. This is to announce the new name of our business, the new location, and to offer a $10 discount (nice easy round number- no perceneforum.xxxes to figure out, LOL!) to try to entice them to come back and see him in the new place. I have two rolls of stamps and a big stack of letters, envelopes, and address labels that I have to put together tomorrow. This is our marketing gal's idea- and the first of several steps she is having us implement to start really seriously promoting this business. The next step is that dreaded brochure- the one wherein we are supposed to delineate our "various services and offerings and their prices". This is what prompted this post! One service, one price will make for a rather short brochure, won't it?

I think I'm going to try working on the angle of "these are but some of the many and varied modalities that are typically incorporated into our 'magical massages' (her words!)", and then go into a brief description of each and their benefits, and why they make his massages so very "magical". It'll be more informational/educational than "menu" oriented, I'm afraid.

Once I have my license and have determined what I will be offering myself, we'll update the brochure and maybe then it'll look more like what she's thinking of. Maybe. LOL!

 

[Krish K]

My first thought is to charge one price for a "Signature Massage." This price could definitely be $65, or even $70. (You will probably be wanting to raise your price in a year or so anyway, becuase most new people start out too low. Just start out at a good price now.)

As for marketing you could have "Signature Massage by Jane, $70" and "Signature Massage by John, $70" Each one of you write up your own philosophy on massage and a description of how you give your one hour signature massage -- both go on the menu. Some people will choose you, some will choose your husband. After a while, people who have been going to one might want to try the other. Maybe because of scheduling they'll have to. The fact is, you both will have your strengths and weaknesses. Even if you do get more massages at the beginning (I'm not saying you will, but it is possible) after awhile people will wind up trying him, either just because he's the other therapist or because their schedule leaves them with that choice.

Basically, don't make your pricing too complicated. Charge the same for your basic massage. It doesn't matter if you do different stuff. At a spa where 6 different therapists work, they all give a different massage, yet they are priced the same and the time is the same. You can have other treatments that he does, or you do, or both of you do.

I guess I am giving the same advice as Rose of Sharon and the others, only a bit more convoluted!

Oh, Shiva- but I like the way you put it, too! I love the idea of the "Signature Massage". I think I am going to use that in our marketing materials! When we want to leave our mark on paper, we write our signature- with our hand. When dh works on someone, he invariably leaves his mark on them- with his hands! I LOVE this concept! Thanks!

 

[Peter & Paulo]

On "newbies setting their prices too low"....

When dh first started out working on the horses, he went to the racetracks (he was a jockey in his "former life" [before me]) and charged $35 to do a roughly 1-hour massage on the racehorses. The track can be a very harsh and unforgiving place, and we learned the hard way that if you start out on the wrong foot, nothing will ever "fix" that. He had the hardest time trying to convince even trainers he had known "back then" to give him a shot, for the potential benefit of their horses.

I realize now that probably the majority of the reason why he couldn't make it there was because he set his sights- and his price- way too low. In a world where thousands and even hundreds of thousands of dollars sometimes ride on one 2-minute blip of time, him traipsing around out there, unsure of himself and asking a mere pittance for something that was supposed to make "such a difference" was a sure sign that he did not know what he was doing, or that what he was trying to sell really had no value at all.

He should have started out charging $120 per session at the track.

Of course, our steps "back then" lead us to "today", and "here" is where we are today. Dh truly has a heart for folks who are hurting, and he also has a heart for those who truly cannot afford much. He has been told by many that he could charge $120 for his "people" massages and that would be cheap. He won't, though. There are those who give him "over and above" though, because they believe his work is worth that. Yet he says that he never wants someone who needs what he can do to have to go without because they can't afford him.

 

[Vigilante M]

He can offer a sliding scale to those people. Put it in your literature:

"$120 for 60 minutes. No person turned away due to lack of funds."

Or some such. This way the "value" people, (people who see something that is $65 as worth less) will come to you becase if you are charging $120 it must be good! But also, people who are truly in need but cannot afford it will have an opportunity as well. I'm sure you can search the board for sliding scales to see how others have done it.

But if he is really worth $120, by charging less he is only devaluing his sessions, and silly as it may seem, people may "get less" from his work if they are paying less. Expectations mean a lot. I know it seems crazy in some way, but it can be true. When I started charging more I got more clients.

He can also volunteer his work to those in need. If he's making enough so that he doesn't have to work "full time," then he can afford to do a few hours a month (or week) for those in need, for FREE!

 

[Mario]

As noted above, you price yourself any way you see fit. If you are both going to be employed by the same business, it makes more sense to have uniform rates for most massage services. However, either one of you can offer specialized treatment options for varying prices. One local business has several MTs sharing a space, and here's how their service/price menu is advertised:

http://www.newlighttc.com/bodywork/index.php

Notice how each MT's background is briefly described to assist potential clients in selecting an MT. For a smaller practice, it's a nice way to differentiate each MT by their strengths while demonstrating the variety of skills available to patrons.

The owner/head MT of that business also advertises herself independently. Here's her primary site, which I consider an outstanding example because she successfully integrates many different online tools to maximize convenience and sales: http://www.massagegeek.com/index.php

I believe she is also a MassagePlanetL member, but don't know if she is currently active.

 

[hobojo]

Another thread on what to charge....

... what do we charge for MY massages when I join him?

Just have time to address this right now.

Charge the same for each of you. We had this situation in my office when my husband joined me. Although I may have more "years", he had other experience to offer.

You can charge for the experience if you like, but we opted to charge for the time.

We provide all sessions at the same cost. Deep, medical, swedish, a combination or whatever it may be.

Also, I would suggest going $5 - $10 higher than what you think you are comfortable with. We did that when he joined me. I was comfotable charging $60/hour, but I was loosing ground and not making enough to really stay in business. We bumped it to $75. He suggested $85 at the time, which I was drastically uncomfortable with, but I have come to see, that it probably would have been less painful to go ahead with the $85 then and be done with it.

I'll read through the whole thread later and try to post. If I don't, and you want me to... just PM to remind me. I have a little much on my plate at the moment.